Read our accompanying blog The Human Dynamics Driving Your Organization for more insights and practical leadership strategies on this subject.

Podcast Transcript

John Bullock:

Welcome to this Advance Performance Podcast unlocking people’s potential worldwide. I’m John Bullock and joining me today is Richard Burkard. So, Richard, what’s the topic of today’s podcast?

Richard Burkard:

Well, John, I thought I would take us through an ID parade today and that is looking at the different types of people that we come across in organisations.

John:

Sounds very interesting. Okay, so where do we start?

Richard:

We’re going to start with a thing called the Player. Now, the Player is one of those go to people. They’re the sort of people that are resilient, determined. They’re sort of people that are incredibly bought into where you’re going as a team, as an organization. And they’ve got that really high degree of self belief, drive, great attitude and that sort of thing. And they’re focused on the right thing and they tend to go beyond the call of duty. The thing is they can get forgotten and they do need to be challenged because they want to go and achieve their goals.

John:

Fantastic. So we know those people in our businesses, don’t we? The people that just get on with it, go the extra mile, never let you down.

Richard:

Absolutely. They sort of can do people and they’ll always give it a shot.

John:

Fantastic. Okay, so that’s the player. So where are we going now?

Richard:

Well, the next type is called the Spectator, really. And if the Players are on the pitch doing the business, the Spectators are in the stands watching what’s going on. They hope things go well, they expect them to go well, but they don’t necessarily get off their backsides to make things happen. They’ll tend to sink into the background once things get a little bit tough. They’re fairly cautious people, but friendly. They’re, yes, people, easily deflated. A sort of a secret thin skin. I think I’ve heard it described before. If you imagine someone like Winston Churchill being a Spectator, which is a little bit odd, but imagine him in the House of Commons, 1940 in June, addressing them and saying, we should fight them on the beaches, we should fight in the landing grounds, we should fight in the streets, in the hills. We should never surrender. But I’m happy to go with the flow. I mean, he’s not going to say that these are the guys, these spectators, you mustn’t criticize them too much. You’ve got to build the confidence and support them and keep checking their work, basically.

John:

Okay, fantastic. So that’s a Spectator. So the Spectators, not, not bad people, just need a little bit more help, a little bit more support. Maybe you’re able to get them up into into being a Player at some point.

 

Richard:

Absolutely right.

John:

Okay, great. So we’ve looked at Players and Spectators so far, and both of those types of people. What’s it. What’s hitting me is that both of those types of people generally either make it happen or want it to happen. What about the other side of the coin then, Rich? What about people that haven’t got such a great attitude in the workplace?

Richard:

That’s a good point, John. I mean, I call this sort of the weird box, if you like. And these. This is the box that holds the Corpse. And the corpse read mood, Hoover, dementor, whatever you want to call it. And these guys that, you know in their heads, they retired 10 years ago, but they just forgot to tell anybody, really. And they do. And if you walk past, you less so now, but in the old days, you might walk past these people in a corridor and you wouldn’t know who they were or what they did, but they would give you a bit of a chill as you wandered past them. I always imagine if they’re the sort of people that, you know, they’re not bought in, as you said, they don’t have that right attitude either. And you wonder why they’re there.

John:

Okay. And these are the people that I imagine need a little bit of what I would call oomph. They need a bit of emotion going on. They just kind of drift around the corridors. Would I be right in saying that they do?

Richard:

And I suppose if you. If you sent them to a party with the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, of War, Pestilence, Famine and Death, these guys wouldn’t exactly lighten the mood. I mean, and the way to treat them, you got to treat them with kid gloves. You’ve got to be very specific with instructions and really nurture and look after them.

John:

Okay, so that’s. That’s the third one we’ve talked about, isn’t it? So we’ve got a Player, Spectator and a Corpse. Is there anybody else on this identity parade we need to know about?

Richard:

There is. And this is probably the most important books, I think. And these are called Organizational Terrorists.

John:

Okay. Wow.

Richard:

Okay. And it has to be Organizational Terrorists or it would get us into a little bit of trouble. But these. These are people that have been around the block. They know their stuff. They know their job would not sack them for doing a bad job, but they don’t need to use all their time to do that. So the other parts of their time, they were used to undermine others. These guys aren’t bought in to where you’re going but they still have that, that level of self belief. But they can appear loyal, but they are critical. They can do a pretty good job. But other staff can be scared of them, a little bit intimidated, so they tend to follow them. So these terrorists can be angry, bitter, fairly prickly people at times.

John:

Okay, so we’ve got kind of two sides to the model here. Then we’ve got Players and Spectators that seem to have a great attitude, and then we’ve got the Corpses that obviously nobody wants. And then we’ve got the Terrorists that seem to be the people that have got the bad attitude. Would that be right?

Richard:

Absolutely. And the key to the Organizational Terrorists is you can’t let that continue. So you’ve got to take these guys on, you’ve got to challenge them. They’ve got to know that you know what they’re up to. And one of the ways of doing that is to give them more responsibility, challenge them more, and really try and understand why is it they’re not bought in anymore? Because the likelihood is you didn’t recruit that person as an organizational terrorist, you probably recruited them as a player.

 

John:

Yeah. So something may have happened that you may be able to help them with.

Richard:

Definitely.

John:

Fantastic. Okay, so that’s the four types of people then that we’re going to talk about. Player, Spectator, Corpses and Terrorists. So as on every advanced podcast, we want to leave the listeners with three things to take away. So what are the three things to take takeaway from today, Richard? Around your identity parade.

Richard:

Okay, John, very clear. Number one, confront the Terrorists. Number two, you’ve got to build the belief and confidence in those that need it, that is, tend to be the Spectators particularly. But number three, I think is really interesting and it’s something I use on a regular basis, that if you’re struggling, your energy levels are low, you’re not quite sure what decision to make. Just ask yourself one question, and that is what would a Player do?

John:

And what a great question to end. So thank you to my guest, Richard Burkhard.

Richard:

It’s been a pleasure, John. Thank you.

John:

I’ve been John Bullock. And thank you for listening to Advance Performance. And please listen out for the next podcast in the series.